« Thailand: Greatest Urban Myths (Part 2)More Edith Clampton & Readers' Responses »
*****
Great stuff Steve. How about the "Thai Red Bull contains amphetamines" or "Singha beer contains formaldehyde" ones next :-P
2010-02-05 @ 17:34
Comment from: Michael Email
*****
Hear all this nonsens here in Hamburg, Germany, where is a great Thai community with all this typical friends and husbands of Farangs. They told this stories again and again.
2010-02-05 @ 18:09
Comment from: Smokey Robinson
*****
Stephen Cleary, the one man defogging machine of Thailand.

What advice would you give backpackers who are told by cops that they have to pay 100,000 baht or risk going to jail? Just to accept the jail term and not pay anything? What about that movie with Nicole Kidman? Wasn't that basically a documentary?
2010-02-05 @ 19:19
Comment from: Smokey Robinson
*****
And it's Chang Beer that contains the formaldehyde which is why its drinkers are so well preserved.
2010-02-05 @ 19:20
Comment from: Lloyd
**---
"Any lady-of--the-night desperate to earn money can get a job in a factory and work her bum off for 6 days a week, 9 hours a day. With paid overtime at an average factory in the Central Region an employee, with no education at all, can rake in around 10,000 month."

This may have been the case at one point in time however things have and are changing. The lack of cheap labour required during times of low production and resultant loss of "paid overtime" for workers who have managed to keep their jobs as well as the attitudes by employers towards employing women over the age of 26-28 who are seen as being "to hard to train and manage" has changed the market for "unskilled" workers.

My wife and I own and manage a small agricultural processing facility near Nong Khai employing around a dozen full time staff and I can assure you that wages in the whole region for anyone with "with no education at all" are certainly nowhere near 10,000 Baht per month.

"As for that sob-story of “I need money send home to take care family” academic Thai language studies have already proven that ladies-of-the-night save and send less money back home than other migrant workers of proper professions."

Do you have any documented evidence of this, links to published 'academic literature' ie: published theses, books or articles?

Asking someone to admit they are working as a prostitue, male or female, and declare their true income and just what they do with it is "nigh on impossible".
2010-02-06 @ 05:26
Comment from: George B
In reply to that last comment from Lloyd.
Since when was Nong Khai province located in central Thailand near Bangkok??
2010-02-06 @ 06:40
Comment from: Mike
**---
Well, as with everything here, there are two sides to every point.

Stepping on a note is avoided when possible and I have sen folks 'WAI' after stepping on a coin or note, so it is not like stomping on a dollar in the wind...

Professional thug - I have been offered assistance for as little as 10,000 Baht - Murder would cost more, but 200,000 seems very steep. Yes, I live near Laos and folks from there work much cheaper than locals...

Ah, Yes, the poor girl story. Yes, 40 years ago, when we Americans were here in great numbers, this was the reality. However, even today, I know of five different women from one village who went to the resorts to work and send their families money. Parents of one girl have even bragged that their daughter works as a 'server' in Pattaya and sends them 20,000 Baht a month... Eventually, all of them allied themselves with foreign men; Australian, British & American and improved their lifestyles...

Yes, good money (10,000+ mo) can be made working, but teachers are so well paid that Universities can't get good students to stay and teach, police are open to bribes and Air Force officers sell women's shoes in the night market...LOL

Here, the author has come close - however, there are those who are in jail because someone else repacked their bags. If anyone is caught as a drug dealer or drug runner, the military and police have a very free hand. Not as bad as Kittikachorn's day, where a quick execution was the order of the day, but any suspect better have cash on hand when the police arrive - the more cash, the better their invisibility...

2010-02-06 @ 08:33
Comment from: mike
**---
George,

The author made it sound like anyone anywhere in Thailand could find a factory job at 10,000 a month...

Millions of Thai famlies live on less than 5000 a month...

Day labor here in Udon Thani is nominally 50 Baht...
2010-02-06 @ 08:41
Comment from: Stephen Cleary Email
Absolute classic from Mike "there are those in jail because someone else repacked their bag"!
Next, we'll be reading about copy-cats in jail getting paid to serve the time for someone else.
By the way: all what i have written comes from proper sources and not farang word of mouth. Before trying to even argue about how much civil servants earn, Central Region factory workers earn etc... go read all the proper relevant Thai language sources and not listen to your jack-the-lad brother-in-law
2010-02-06 @ 10:33
Comment from: Jack The Lad
***--
Hey Mate,

Are you havin' a go? I've kipped in Thailand yonks, me, and I's well aware a certain cultural, shall we say, peccadil-dos.

Why just now as I was going for an Eartha Kitt squat style, I saw an advert in English for hitman services right there on the bog door!: "Murder, cheap, cheap, 5,000 baht. Not same expensive Bangkok."

How can you argue with documentary evidence mate?
2010-02-06 @ 11:34
Comment from: Brutus
*****
It seems like a couple of respondents here are having trouble dealing with the fact that their girlfriends may not have always been presenting an accurate worldview. Steve wrote here that there are decent jobs in CENTRAL Thailand, not Northeast, so if these girls wanted to they could get work in a factory after the long busride here, and many do. Others choose the bar, but they should not be looked on as sacrificing saints for doing so. They're looking for the easiest way to the most money, even if that is often a deluded perspective. Don't fault them, but there it is.

As for the cheap hitmen lark, again, read what's written before commenting. Sure you can hire some meth-addicted idiot to off someone for you for the low low price of 5,000 baht, but that is 5,000 baht less you'll have to spend in your prison account when you go to jail for the rest of your life. That person will certainly fink you out.

I'm sure the majority of farang caught with ganga are too scared to force things through to a legal conclusion and just pay the money. That is what cops rely on. If quoted something extravagant, refuse. Watch any documentary on Thai prisons where foreigners are interviewed and they're always in for huge amounts of drugs like heroin, etc, meant for shipping. They would go to jail for ages anywhere in the world. You never hear of a guy who sparked up a doobie on Khao San Road getting 10 years in the nick. It's a fiction.
2010-02-06 @ 11:49
As I am staying in Bangkok for a year now and am able to read, I can assure you that per day I see around 3 to 5 announcements for jobs.
I can not say so much about the salary, only MK announces a starting salary from 7.000 and "special money" plus "tip" (whatever that will be).

I am very sure that there is a lot of possible workplaces for everybody who is willing to work, especially for the uneducated. A great life is not affordable with that, but you dont have to sell your body to old guys at Pattaya for sure if you dont want to, but if your mother want to have a new motobike and dad likes pickups and the neighbourghs have a bigger TV than yours you have to do something about that!
2010-02-06 @ 13:04
Comment from: Lloyd
*----
In response to your 'off-handed' response: "go read all the proper relevant Thai language sources and not listen to your jack-the-lad brother-in-law".

From the official Ministry of Labour, notice the minimum wage rate which is effective from January 1, 2010, for the various regions also consider what the social security, tax and other work related obligations are and then do the math.

Its pretty hard to find 48 days in any given month, even using the Thai calendar.

http://eng.mol.go.th/statistic_01.html

(Steve notes: In the blog it states Plus Overtime!)
2010-02-06 @ 15:35
Comment from: Dave
Where are all these 10,000 baht a month jobs?. I live near Korat and the factories here pay 170 Baht a day, and it usually takes a 10,000 baht bribe to get one of those jobs. As for army pay, my son has just finished his National Service, for the past two years I have had to support his wife and daughter because the pay he got from the army was just 3000 baht a month. The pay in the army does improve to around 8000 baht for a regular soldier, and as there is little or no work in this area for a man he wanted to stay in the army; but when you consider that to stay in the army would have taken a 200,000+ bribe to be paid back out of 8000 a month????.

As for girls going to work in factories in Bangkok, with a lot of luck 7000 - 10,000 may be possible, not plentiful, then take off 3000 minimum for a small room and the extra cost of living there and there is little left to send home.

For reasons I don't want to go into here I know hundreds of 'bar girls' as friends, not as customer-client, and have spent many hours over the past 30 years talking to them. When you here the same story over and over again from many different girls from many parts of Thailand it starts to ring true. There are basically three reasons why girls got to work in the bars; 1. The Thai 'husband' has left them with a couple of kids and no way to support them, this means the grandmother has to take care of them and as there is little or no work in the area and kids and mother to support the is little alternative. You don't hear many reports of grandmothers and kids starving to death so I guess money must be sent home; 2, The father (or brother) has got drunk, lost an awful lot of money gambling and had to borrow money against the family home and land. The family then put their daughters under great pressure to go and work in the bars (couldn't possibly earn enough in a factory) to pay off the fathers debts ; 3, This is the worst case, the one that produces the real 'hardhearted' girls. In homes were the girl has been repeatedly sexually abused by her father and/or brothers and has run away. She sees herself as having no value and might as well get paid for doing what she had to do at home for free

There is of course one other reason that we, the farang, are totally responsible for. Look around in almost every village and you will see at least one new farang style house with a new pick-up on the drive, bought by the farang husband, and because the have been told it is the only way, all in the wifes name. It is amazing how many Thai village girls think that if you work in the bar you will get a farang husband who will give you things you could never possibly have if you work in a factory or shop.
2010-02-06 @ 18:52
there are rooms oposite of the factory, they are 800 a month. Yes, the are shitty as i heard and yes, it is in bangkok, so 3000 is by far not the minimum.

Sure it should be considered that the wages in the countryside are lower, but dont compare the isaan ricefarmer wages with pattaya bars, because there are bars like this in the isaan too where these girls dont want to work.
2010-02-06 @ 21:27
Comment from: City Boy
*****
What's with you upcountry lot? Does your internet connection go out before you have a chance to read a full article.

Steve is talking here about average wages for people upcountry who come to CENTRAL Thailand, not those who stay in the employment wasteland that is the Northeast.

And as for this barstool investigative journalist who has spent 30 years hearing girls' stories, why don't you go to a factory and hear some of the stories there from girls in the exact same financial predicaments who took on honest labor instead of working in a bar?

That you quote 3,000 baht as the rent a Northeasterner coming to Bangkok would pay alone betrays the fact that the only info you get is from bargirls. A factory worker would either get extremely cheap accommodations somewhere near the factory (1,000 baht or under), or would share the cost of rent with two or more friends.

That you think the bar is their only way out is the height of ignorance, and likely reflective of the fact that you as a westerner want to see yourself as the knight in shining armor and a Singha Beer sleeveless t-shirt offering the poor chattel of this country its one hope of a better life. It's a load of patronizing buffalo pie.
2010-02-07 @ 10:22
Comment from: bucky
"And as for this barstool investigative journalist who has spent 30 years hearing girls' stories, why don't you go to a factory and hear some of the stories there from girls in the exact same financial predicaments who took on honest labor instead of working in a bar?" Exactly!
"That you think the bar is their only way out is the height of ignorance, and likely reflective of the fact that you as a westerner want to see yourself as the knight in shining armor and a Singha Beer sleeveless t-shirt offering the poor chattel of this country its one hope of a better life. It's a load of patronizing buffalo pie." Ouch.

Nice read nevertheless.
2010-02-08 @ 08:19
Comment from: shawn
this whole post and all comments made me laugh so hard beer came out my nose
2010-02-08 @ 11:11
I think Shawn makes a good point there:
2010-02-08 @ 19:53
Comment from: Finlandguy
*****
I travel to Thailand twice a year and been doing it for only about six years so I´m definitely not an expert to comment on these matters. But yes, I´ve stumbled into all these myths already...Anyway, since I´ve found this blog I´ts been very entertaining to read it (with all the comments included). When I´m at home I eagerly read these blogs, and get to miss the country more and more. Keep on writing Stephen! You make me happy!
2010-02-09 @ 06:13
Comment from: Lloyd
"(Steve notes: In the blog it states Plus Overtime!)"

FYI our facility supplies produce for an export production centre in Bangkok, part of the Interpack group of companies. All our staff are on rates equivalent to those of the staff in Bangkok, hence why I bothered to reply, this is part of an agreement signed to ensure parity and "harmony" between all suppliers and is actually very common in companies where a certain level of 'skill' and training is required even for 'unskilled' labour.

Given that as you stated most Thai factory workers and 'unskilled' labourers already work a 6 day week the amount of overtime they can work is limited and does not come anywhere near enough to justify a 50% increase in the basic wage which as per government figures is around 210-250 baht per day.

FWIW I entirely agree with your assertion regarding women who "Have to ‘Sell Their Body’ to Escape Poverty" however to state the anyone with no education can wander into "central Thailand" and earn 10,000 Baht per month is pure fiction.

p.s. I had my wife email MK Restaurants, recruit@mkrestaurant.com, and enquire as to their "basic" rate for wait or kitchen hand staff. They offer 10 to 15% above regional set minimum wage rates for the first year.
2010-02-09 @ 14:14
Comment from: Stephen Cleary Email
Thanx again for all the comments. Part 2 will be up very shortly.
2010-02-09 @ 14:23
Comment from: martin
So even if you work 30 days every month @ 250 baht you'll only earn 7500 per month. That'll take a long time to "escape poverty" whilst in the intervening 50 years you'll be living in poverty and working everyday. How many non bar girls build 800k plus houses with money earnt in factories? Get by and not starve yes, escape poverty no.

2010-02-10 @ 01:00
Comment from: gp
The one I used to hear a lot from some know-it-all farang who was a regular poster on a message forum I used to read was that you should never give your Thai gf perfume as a present because in Thai culture it meant that you thought she had BO and was therefore an insult.
I asked several Thai girls about this, they hadn't heard of it and all said they would be happy to receive perfume as a gift from their bf.
2010-04-03 @ 23:12
**---
Whilst I agree that working in a bar is an "easy" way out of working in a factory, I disagree with your figure of 10,000 baht a month.

My sister in law is very slowly building and improving her house in our village, over the past 10 years I have known her they have only managed to put a concrete wall around the ground floor pillars, nothing more.

The reason ? her and her husband work in a factory in Bangkok, they make about 6000 baht each, but have to pay their boss to rent the room from that, they have three kids that live with them in this room and they all are school age, leaving very little money to save for their village house, let alone send money home to mum and dad.

They never ask us for anything, I offered to go halves on a computer for their eldest son about 7 years ago, he is now studying computers at university, but they have never asked for a penny since. I have utmost respect for them, they put their kids first and work very hard for little money.

Of course there are other reasons besides increased salaries that these girls go and work in the bar, they definately stand more chance (in their mind - and in reality) of learning english and getting their claws into a man who can take her away from the bar and provide some security not just for her but for her kids and parents.

So, and as someone else has posted yes you can work in a factory for low money (circa 6000 baht less lodgings) a month which will leave you little money and no hope of getting out of the rut, or you can maybe earn more and have a chance of meeting someone who can take you away and improve your life.

incidently I have never partaken in the lady renting business and our village is remarkebly absent of bar money, except for one family of thais who sent their daughter to pattaya to make money and send home, has 5 boyfriends in tow and all send her money, despite me telling them about the other boyfriends - but that is another story.
2010-05-01 @ 13:42
Comment from: fuckup
you are such a fucking creep Cleary - I hope we actually get to meet one day.
2010-06-30 @ 04:42

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