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Comment from: Kitjar Sukjaidee
This is a very good article on Sakdina!

For another perspective, check out Jit Phumisak's The Real Face of Thai Saktina Today. I think Jit wrote this article using the pen-name of Somsamai Srisudravarna. Although Jit Phumisak is a great Thai scholar, he is somehow forgotten by many Thai people!

By the way, there's even a debate on how to spell Sakdina. Is it sakTina or sakDina. There's a difference too!
11/03/2009 @ 04:11
Comment from: paul wilding
Thanks,

I actually read it as part of the research along with several other marxists. Why is it only marxists write about it? The marxist view tend to be there is no Sakdina in Thailand, this is because in marxism everything must be down to the forces of production, so any other influences on people or society must be denied. Not being a marxist I tend to disagree with this point of view.
11/03/2009 @ 04:26
Comment from: Jen
It is strange how Korea China and Japan who had even stricter "Sakdina" rules eventually did away with it over the last 100 years but Thailand is still hanging on to it.
11/03/2009 @ 06:33
Comment from: kpmsprtd
*****
Thank you very much, Mr. Paul Wilding, for this very informative article. I have heard the term "feudalism" used, but this is my first time hearing about Sakdina. (I'm relatively new to Thailand.)
11/03/2009 @ 10:07
Comment from: Khun Don
*****
Thanks for a very clear explanation of the Sakdina system -bet it starts turning up in student essays on the subject very soon! :-))

Why is it only Marxists write about it?

Because they seek to explain its role, and integrate it within the Marxist model, and thus prove the Marxist perspective is valid for all situations.
In short, it is currently an anomaly and thus disturbs them!

Similarly, Functionalists will not write about it as much, as Sakdina's static function is both self evident and proof of the Functionalist perspective of a static society. They would rather spend their time trying and explain the obvious-and very disturbing- existence of the tempestuous post WW2 political and social changes that have swept away much of the rigidity of the Sakdina system and incorporate such within the Functionalist perspective, to preserve such.

Like the Marxist,they only concentrate on issues that threaten the integrity of the theory. Why re-invent the wheel by debating issues that obviously support such theories?
Leave that to the critics!

I guess the bottom line here is that society can not be fully understood by one sociological model alone.
11/03/2009 @ 17:25
Comment from: Bong
*****
"It is strange how Korea China and Japan who had even stricter "Sakdina" rules eventually did away with it over the last 100 years but Thailand is still hanging on to it."

If you look closer, the local versions of Sakdina still exist, or at least in China it is making a comeback. It is very hard to wipe off from the psyche 2000 odd years of Confucianism. Even modern day Singapore has a class system if you notice it hard enough.

12/03/2009 @ 07:35
Comment from: Bergen
Thank you for the interesting article.

To a debatable extent, fact remains that Sakdina is integrated into the Thai society today. However, it would be a mistake, in my humble opinion, to rely on it as the sole basis to the understanding of the Thai social behaviors. Sakdina by itself, or anything else for that matter, cannot interpret and explain the complexity of the Thai cultural kaleidoscope. Same goes for any society - it takes a multitude of elements to form a social and cultural understanding.

If American coed beauties start advertising themselves for sex in websites, I'm sure it will make big splashes in the news in the US as well.
12/03/2009 @ 10:53
Comment from: Web Design Bangkok
The system in Thailand is far more ancient than the Victorian era of deference and aloofness. But would we want it any other way?
12/03/2009 @ 17:25
Comment from: paul wilding
Sakdina is certainly not the sole system out there or even the most important one, but it is definately a player, as the PAD example emphasises.

A formalised system of politeness in this day and age can mean someone can bow low to another person out sakdina and then be his master in power influence in the country.

Then again it's not necessarily a bad thing in my eyes to have a system of politeness it's just bad to have heirarchies. A country with communist sakdina where everyone is polite to one another as equals would be a good country to live in.

As I've always said what Thailand needs is a large enough dose of (non-marxist) communism to level out the wealth and statuses or people.
12/03/2009 @ 19:43
Comment from: Jen
*****
" If you look closer, the local versions of Sakdina still exist, or at least in China it is making a comeback. It is very hard to wipe off from the psyche 2000 odd years of Confucianism. Even modern day Singapore has a class system if you notice it hard enough."

List some examples.
14/03/2009 @ 08:27
Comment from: Sparky
Great article. One example of Sakdina in China might be the phenomenon of the "Princelings" -- a fitting name too. These children of senior party cadres and officials get plumb jobs, appointments and opportunities. I once met a niece of ex-vice-president Zeng Peiyan, who runs a huge property empire. So after persecuting the landlords, the comms are now the landlords.
15/03/2009 @ 14:40
Comment from: Bong
Many examples of Sakdina in China are anecdotal. An personal example I could give is a distant relative of mine who was a former Red Guard and a Communist Party member who (through indirect partnership) has a share in a large shoe manufacturing company in Guangdong province and that was in the early 90s when China started opening up to the rest of the world. All I can say is that he is very wealthy, well respected and not a person to be "messed around with" in his native Hainan Province. Now that is Sakdina - a new powerful and untouchable class of Party members.

Singapore has a class of "elites" who are composed of former scholars recruited into State service. These are very well paid and extremely powerful civil servants who basically run a system set up by Lee Kuan Yew and they make sure that the system is unchallenged. Dissent is not tolerated. The upper echelons of the People's Action Party and together with Singapore's wealthy elite is Sakdina in Singapore.

The examples go on and on.......
16/03/2009 @ 08:12
Comment from: Joseph
There will always be upper and lower classes; the US has them and so does Europe.

Of course China has a class system based on Party membership and/or wealth.

That is very different than a feudal class system. Because China, Japan and Korea had extreme social upheavals (mostly caused by war) things were shaken so profoundly that newer systems were able to take root.

That hasn't happened in Thailand; the archaic feudal system is still in place. If the masses get too unruly, a certain individual will take the stage, the masses will kowtow, and it will be back to business as usual.
11/02/2010 @ 08:23

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