XML FeedsHistorical Connection
By oakmonster
Monday 19th February, 2007 | 400 words | Category: General | 14 feedbacks »
This is a re-post from my personal blog with minor tweak.
Here's a photo of my grandfather I found online while doing a little bit of research. He's the one saluting. And next to that, the border marker that in 1940-1942 defined the line between Thailand and Combodia.
The correlation? My grandfather, General Mangkorn Phromyothi, saluted the prime minister at the time, P. Phibunsongkram during the French-Thai war of 1940. Wikipedia has a version of the full story, but essentially my grandfather kicked some French butt and got a piece of Cambodia back to our side. Hence, the removal of the markers which one is at my home and the other in a military museum.
Anyway. I found my grandfather's picture online because of Another Blogger's recent post about her great grandfather, a controversial military and historical figure Thanorm Kittikachorn.
On that note, I had a hunch that our great/grandpas must've known each other so I did a little research.
Indeed.
At one point, our great/grandfathers were serving the same cabinet! And actually, a few governments after my grandfather was the Minister of Defense, AB's great grandfather also took the same spot.
Remember how I said if you throw a shoe into the crowd in Bangkok, you'd find someone with royal DNA? I guess it's almost the same way with being related to historical political figures, huh? :)
AB and I had found that we have a LOT in common with our blogging style and point of view. And now we found out that over 60 years ago, our great/grandfathers might have been friends.
You just never know who you'll run into on the Internet! :)
Heck. At this rate, if we trace our family trees and found it intertwined at some point, I wouldn't be surprise any more.
*ADDITION* Folks are pointing out the "war criminal" records that popped up with my grandfather. WWII was a tricky time for Thai politics and military. Like many other military figures at the time, this ruling was a result of Thai government cooperating with the Japanese and letting them march through our country without the actual occupation. So we were forced to be taken over like China, or we can save our own lives by cooperating as "an ally". We chose the latter. Hence, the military figures at the time fell under "war criminal" category for being Japan's ally. Hope that clear things up!
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14 comments
We've all got skeletons in the cupboard, by your's takes some beating.
WWII was a tricky time for Thai politics and military. Like many other military figures at the time, this ruling was a result of Thai government cooperating with the Japanese and letting them march through our country without the actual occupation. So we were forced to be taken over like China, or we can save our own lives by cooperating as "an ally". We chose the latter. Hence, the military figures at the time fell under "war criminal" category for being Japan's ally. Hope that clear things up!
People who do not break the laws of war, but assist occupying forces after invasion are defined as collaborators. Consequently, in the absence of any other evidence, General Mangkorn Phromyothi was not a "war criminal", but in common with the greater majority of the senior Thai military officers at that time, a collaborator. This is the black and white situation, but as in all history, the reality is always shades of grey.
"if you throw a shoe into the crowd".
I can only imagine that you would have a few of the audience wanting to give you a 'foot' back. I advise therefore, that no-one of the foreign readers here try doing this act themselves! Throwing a show at someone's head in Thailand isn't exactly an everyday pastime.
Who is this other blogger related to FM Thanorm Kittikachorn?
Really interesting blog!
Good Stuff.
Ur writing, as ever, is great.
That is not to say, all generals are bad: simply, for me, they don't get the benefit of the doubt.
Until Thailand can fully reveal her recent history with truth, honesty, and freedom instead of the current taboos, defamation laws and lese majeste laws, I will stick by my opinion of most generals.
French colonialism is worse than Field Marshal Pibulsonggram.
I really am sorry about going on and on ranting about Thailand's recent history...
The other WW2 event (or more like nonevent) I enjoyed reading was how the Thai ambassador in DC refused to deliver the note that Thailand declared war on the US.
Another interesting trivial pursuit fact is that after World War II was over, and Thailand was considered a defeated enemy, she refused to give back the French territory to Siam. They were still fighting after the war ended.
I actually went and read the US state department documents.
The British(Australia and New Zealand) and the French wanted to punish Thailand for allying with Japan, which it swore allegiance to before the Emerald Buddha. Oak glosses over that part. There were two agreements. One agreement was to allow Japanese troops to pass through Thai territory; another agreement that allied Thailand to Japan.
After Japan was defeated, the US policy was for the Thailand/Siam to retain its sovereignty and independence. The Americans wanted to abide by the Atlantic Charter, which guaranteed self-determination, yet the Americans were worried about British-French re-colonization of Southeast Asia, so the US sided with the Thais over the British and French concerning the treatment of post-war Thailand.
Thailand's punishment was a huge post-war dispute between all the allies.
The Thais refused to give the territory back.
The French were so angry with the Thais that they wanted to take back the Emerald Buddha back to Laos and was going to veto Thailand's entry into the United Nations.
As the Wikipedia states, that threat of UN veto plus US diplomacy finally resolved the conflict that lasted into 1946.
By the way, we are witnessing a return of irredentist right-wing Thai politics over the satellite dispute with Singapore.
Thanks for all of your comments. This is indeed more educational and a bit more provocative than I thought.
Now, a note on some concerns over the omission of facts and glossing over of the historical bits.
I tell the story the way *I* remember it being told. Unfortunately, and shamefully, my memory of Thai history lesson is dusty at best. And of course, there is the family version on everything. And even that, I don't even know it very well either.
I didn't intend to gloss over any details or hide anything. It hasn't come up because, well, I just don't know about it. I didn't do a thorough research but only touched on the surface because this entry is meant to be a PERSONAL note, not a historical report.
Hence, it's all about what I know...which is, as you can see here, not much. Heheh.
But I'm glad y'all enjoy the post and participate in the discussion!
Field Marshall Pibulsonggram was branded a 'war criminal' which to me is ludicrous as people should remember him as a 'Hero' after all Thais did not have to die fighting the war, families weren't torn apart, and don't forget what normally happens to women in an occupied country.
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