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Looked in on-line edition of The Nation yesterday specifically for your article yesterday, Steve, unable to find it.-which section is it usually posted in?
Must say I have never noticed dual-pricing in the UK- beyond the "Half-price for pensioners- if accompanied by both parents and grandparents" joke notices, but I do not go to tourist places here.
Certainly I do not mind paying a bit more than the locals in Thailand-say double, but a 10 times price hike as demanded by the National Parks is a total rip off-with, seemingly with the blessing of the same government bureaucracy that spends so much money trying to get tourists to Thailand in the first place!
2007-01-15 @ 00:41
I never got to take a close look on this matter until a few years back when taking my boyfriend back to Thailand. At the ticket boot at Rajchadumneun boxing stadium, as a host, I offered to pay for his ticket. I remember paying two different prices--a much cheaper one for a Thai like myself, and another skyrocking one for a non-Thai like my boyfriend. I asked the ticket person that even though it was a policy to charger a foreigner much higher price, but heck, I was the one who paid for it and that I'm Thai. That didn't work. Still, I guess, that doesn't change the fact my boyfriend has blue eyes, regardless whether I was the one who had to pay or not. Very weird.
2007-01-15 @ 09:08
Comment from: Richard Barrow Email · http://www.richardbarrow.com
As a host, I offered to pay for his ticket. I remember paying two different prices--a much cheaper one for a Thai like myself, and another skyrocking one for a non-Thai like my boyfriend.


This is very true. Thai hosts often want to pay for their foreign visitors and this is when they often find out for the first time about the two price system.

Some places do compromise sometimes. I took one of our new teachers and her father to the Ancient City yesterday. She didn't have a work permit yet but I managed to persuade the ticket lady to give her the Thai price. And for her father she gave him the foreign child price.
2007-01-15 @ 09:57
Comment from: Terry Email
Hi,

In answer to Don's question, you can access Steve's blog by doing a back issues search - setting the year to 2007, the section to Opinion and searching for "Cleary"

Or, cut and paste the following:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/page.news.php?clid=11&id=30024026

2007-01-15 @ 12:26
Comment from: Terry Email
Apologies - most of that got in but for the last string of numbers - which is 30024026
2007-01-15 @ 12:28
Comment from: anon Email
That photograph is from the Grand Palace, right? Free for Thais, foreigners are charged.

But the Grand Palace isn't run by the Thai government. It is run by the Royal Household Bureau.

They can do anything they want and charge anything they want.

If anybody even thinks about criticizing the conduct of the Royal Household, please remember that there is a law called "lèse majesté" and foreigners are not exempt from it.
2007-01-15 @ 17:53
Comment from: diego mctavish Email
A law against thinking huh?

No danger you'll be charged with anything then.
2007-01-15 @ 18:32
Thanks for the info on Steve's blog, Terry.
2007-01-15 @ 19:06
Comment from: Richard Barrow Email · http://www.richardbarrow.com
If that is the Grand Palace then admission price suddenly went down a lot! Correct me if I am wrong, but it is 250 baht at the Grand Palace. This picture was taken at one of the many temples around the country that charge admission for foreigners (even foreigners who are Buddhists). Myself I don't mind paying 20 baht if it helps the upkeep of the temple. Same goes for the Grand Palace as that place is really amazing.
2007-01-15 @ 19:41
Comment from: Steve Suphan Email
Thanks for the comments. The article for The Nation was entitled 'Banana-shake backpackers not the only ones feeling the sting of two-tiered pricing'.

The main part censored in the article, which can be found here in the original - is the name Mr. Ripleys.

And as for Anon's comment - we at thai-blogs know the law. Thanks very much.

In fact, i just spent a splendid weekend at one of Thailand's most least visited national parks - and i got in for free. Will write a blog about it soon. But even the officials said 'I can't see it being fair, that foreigners have to pay ten times the price.
2007-01-15 @ 19:43
Comment from: Terje Hansen Email · http://blog.dagbla.com
I think we will get closer to understanding the two-tired pricing ystem if we think of it as a price reduction for Thais. In the case of National Parks, The Royal Palace etc. this can make sense as these are part of their national heritage - so the government will sponsor entrance fees for Thais, but not for foreign tourists.

Another interesting aspect of this system is that in some cases the Thais have to pay more. I noticed this first when i wanted to take a coach from Bangkok to Surat Thani with my Thai girl friend. We were told that Thais were not allowed on the bus, since it was meant for tourists. The fare was cheaper than ordinary bus fares, since tousist buses were excempt from certain taxes. Thais had to take an ordinary bus, which cost more.

2007-01-15 @ 20:04
Comment from: Jonas Email
Terje tries to argue that national paks are part of Thailand's heritage. Actually, the national pasks have only been registered as such in the past few years. An arguments like that could be argued by foreigners that Thais ought to pay 'more'. Doesn't and wouldn't work.

As a price-reduction for Thais, Steve has mentioned in the article that Western countries too have a locals price, which is similar to the two-tier price system.

I have heard reports from the papers of hotels giving discounts to foreigners but not Thais. That is really unfair.

It is also very unfair that Thais are banned from staying at many guesthouses like hose along Kao Sarn road.
2007-01-15 @ 20:30
Comment from: Terje Hansen Email · http://blog.dagbla.com
I'm still in the process of trying to figure out how the Thai mind works, and one possibility could be that they consider a government controlled area like a National Park as - in one sense - the joint property of all Thai nationals - this would make it more understandable to me why they lower the entrance fees for Thais.
2007-01-15 @ 20:52
Comment from: Vichai Email
30% of my income is taken by the government for, among other things, the upkeep of National Parks, temples, and other key tourist attractions. A smaller part of my remaining income also subsidizes these tourist sites via sales taxes and municipal taxes.

Therefore, it only makes sense that government-funded tourist sites are cheaper for tax-payers than for banana-shake drinking free-riders.
2007-01-16 @ 00:59
Comment from: Colts Email
Simple put:
Don't like it, don't have to go!
2007-01-16 @ 01:40
Comment from: Gordon Email
I think that the real reason for the two-tier pricing is that they can. Many Thais would turn away if asked to pay 400 Baht to enter a national park, whereas most tourists have spent over a thousand dollars [or equivalent in their currency] for a vacation in Thailand, and are not likely to skip something interesting because it will cost another $11 or so.

This doesn't make it right, but as has been pointed out here and elsewhere, Thais tend to be practical about such things, and if they can find ways to get more out of tourists, they will do so. Another place where two-tier pricing was in effect, at least three years ago when I was last in Thailand, was for bus tickets. When I bought tickets from Bangkok to Korat, they were, as I recall, B187, but on the return trip, a Thai friend took our money and bought the tickets, and got them for B150 or so. Even 30 years ago, when I was there in the Peace Corps, an air-conditioned bus ticket from Khon Kaen to Bangkok was B80, except the last time when I made the reservation over the phone, speaking Thai, I got it for B65.
2007-01-16 @ 12:41
Comment from: djaidee Email
Gordon, I think you noticed something wrong.
Bus fares are fixed prices no matter you are Thai or a foreigner.
There are different bus companies and they have different prices, so maybe on the return trip it was another company.
Also the ticket prices can change from day to day due to changing gas prices.
But there is no two-price system on bus fares.
2007-01-17 @ 02:49
Comment from: BUCKY Email
There is also double pricing for hotels. Last year my Thai girlfriend and I decided to book Maenam Riverside Hotel (4 star) for a getaway weekend and she was quoted over the phone 1,900thb+++ a night. When we reached the registration counter and the receptionists found out I'm a foreigner (I have work permit though), they told us we have to pay the foreigner price of 3,300thb +++ as the 1,900thb price was for locals only. My girlfriend explained she'll be paying for the room but was told even so, she still has to pay the foreigner price cos there'll be a foreigner in the room. My girlfriend insisted on leaving when she noticed one of the receptionists threw a pen across the table while I was bargaining with the manager. Face thing she says.. ;p I wrote to the hotel to inform this incident but they never bother to reply back....

We got away with the local price thing the first time we stayed there though cos I look Chinese Thai... ;p
2007-01-17 @ 13:18
Comment from: scooby Email
I think the 400 baht national park fee
will backfire on the government. Last
week I took ten of my Thai in-laws to
visit a waterfall down in Chantaburi. I
had to pay 400 baht, while they paid
the same amount between the ten of them.
Point is, I saw many, many farangs
refusing to pay the entrance fee and
turning back to wherever they came from.
Now if the fee was still 200 baht, they
prabably would have paid.
2007-01-17 @ 15:55
Comment from: Charlie Email
I personally hate double-charging, or
rather I hate charging period.

I have gotten out of having to
pay admission fees at some of the
country's famous temples by saying
that I had previously ordained in Burma
-- they're crazy about Burmese
meditation for some reason -- where I
spent 8 months fasting and reading
the dhamma and that I'm merely
continuing my spiritual practice by
visiting a Thai wat.

A complete lie but they eat it up
like ice-cream on a hot day! Twenty baht
in my pocket = score!

Charlie
2007-01-17 @ 20:50
Believe it or not I have met something like this in Romania, but it was otherwise. Romanian people had to pay more for entering an airport, in Brasov if I remember correctly, while the foreigners it was cheaper.
2007-01-17 @ 23:26
Comment from: Bruce Goose Email
Oh no! Alert the Romanian Tourist Authority! The millions of people who would have otherwise spent their holidays in that mecca of European tourism are going to be cancelling in droves once they hear this information!
2007-01-18 @ 15:05
Comment from: Betti Email
pulling out a lie just to save 20 baht on a temple entry fee? that's just so miserable....
2007-01-21 @ 20:05
Comment from: Charlie
Hey Betti if you and I were on a date that 20 baht would pay for your lunch! Think of it that way and then tell me if I'm still as 'miserable' as all that.
2007-01-21 @ 22:24
We have a right to choose. If foreigners wouldn’t go in Thailand for two years as tourists, the authorities will have to make serious discounts. Anyway, I think it’s a matter of time until this double-prices will disappear like the smoke in the mist.
2007-01-22 @ 20:55
Comment from: Jim
Khun Vichai wrote:
"30% of my income is taken by the government for, among other things, the upkeep of National Parks, temples, and other key tourist attractions. A smaller part of my remaining income also subsidizes these tourist sites via sales taxes and municipal taxes.

Therefore, it only makes sense that government-funded tourist sites are cheaper for tax-payers than for banana-shake drinking free-riders."

Sorry, Khun Vichai, but your logic doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The price differentiation is not between taxpayers and tourists, it is between Thais and foreigners.

I have lived and worked in Thailand for 18 years, have a Thai family, can read, write and speak Thai, and also pay 30% of my wages to the Thai government. But because I have white skin I am always expected to pay the higher foreigner's price.

It has nothing to do with paying taxes, financial ability, or whether you are a tourist. It is the color of your skin, nothing more and nothing less.
2007-01-26 @ 16:45
Comment from: Stephen Cleary Email
I agree with Jim.

If a Thai wants to argue that entrance fees for foreigners ought to higher - reasoning the payment of taxes, then, as Jonas mentioned earlier - Western countries too, have the right to charge Thais 10 times the price to enter the likes of Buckingham Palace.

One of Thailand's most well-known intellectuals, a critic and a Political Science Prof. at Chulalongkorn University 'Giles Unpakorn' wrote articles about overcharging to both The Nation and The Bangkok Post. Giles, the son of one of the country's most famous ever Student Activists the Late 'Pui Ungpkakorn' was married to a foreigner - making Giles a half-caste.

He wrote both articles about the Temple of Emerald Buddha guards who tried to have him pay the foreign price. He explained that he had a Thai ID card, Thai passport and had been paying taxes for the past 20 years. The guards would have nothing of it and tried to argue that he was still a 'Farang!'

That is beyond a doubt - discrimination.

All in all though, my article is not about discrimination and as a poster commented earlier, like Richard Barrow said in a previous blog 'You have the right to choose'. In a part of this article, i tried to suggest that "Yes, foreigners should have the right to know and..... so choose" But then, it would only be fair to give them that 'choice' and not post the Thai numerals thing.
2007-01-26 @ 20:05
Comment from: UK student Email
Why is it that I cannot pay Home fees for a university in the UK then?

Two-tier pricing! I protest!

But seriously, sometimes it is discrimination depending on who you get. Some guards are vehemently against "farangs" getting the Thai fee as the above anecdote relates, but some are more reasonable and will probably let you through paying the Thai price seeing as you pay taxes, can speak Thai, have lived in Thailand, etc.

If only the government were to have a coherent policy and not rely on individual judgments I'm sure you'd appreciate the fairness of it all. And, if the government were to be able to calculate the fare difference fairly, that is, not some ridiculous 10x difference ...

It is true that dual pricing is not properly implemented, but one cannot say that it is wrong at all levels.
2007-02-06 @ 20:20
Comment from: Steve Suphan Email · http://www.stevesuphan.com
'UK Student' has just posted a perfect example of the two-teiring price system in the West and the over-charging for Uni fees can be found in many countries. As i pointed out in my blog -

"Some folk may also argue that this kind of 'special locals price' as is popular in Western countries, is just another variation of the two-tier price system"
2007-02-07 @ 11:40
The argument for a locals price lower than a foreigners price based on locals having paid taxes for the resource is applied many places. The community colleges in California charge out of state and out of country students much more. Apparently the UK universities do the same. In the case of California, the taxes paid by locals are huge, so getting some of that back as a student is a bit of a consolation. But it is an awful system - consider the majority who never use the resource but are forced to pay for it.

In the case of national parks in Thailand, I would suggest to Khun Vichai that the average tourist spends in VAT during their two week vacation far more than average Thai person pays in taxes in a year. Just look at the average per capita income in Thailand and consider how few workers actually pay income tax - most pay only VAT through their small purchases. So your argument should go the other way - tourists should get in free because they pay more in taxes than the average Thai person.
2007-03-06 @ 19:05
Comment from: ThaiGirlInTheUS Email
This is because Thais pay Taxes and the government uses that money to maintain the places. Tourists dont pay taxes and that they got charged.
2007-10-18 @ 12:56
Comment from: gonzobrains Email · http://www.gonzobrains.com
****-
Two-tier pricing is tolerable if the farang overcharging wasn't so blatantly high.
2008-04-22 @ 02:44
Comment from: Sonni Boel Email
No it's not tolerable at all.

Imagine af cry out if as in Pattaya where a farang is charged 400 for riden without af helmet and a Thai only has to pay two hundred. Can you imagine af cry out if trafic violations wes double prized the same way in europe?

It’s racism and nothing less. Though liberal forces have changed the very word into meaning something the white race is doing to other races.

It’s a slaves think’ and the very reason that they will never get out of poverty.

sonni08




2008-10-01 @ 11:06

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« Truly Unseen: Phu Toei National ParkWinning the hearts and the minds »